Erasing the Jewish Star - @MidEastTruth
 
 
MidEastTruth Forum Index
  Home | Cartoons | Videos | Presentation | Flyers | Forum | UN vs ISRAEL | Links | Update List  

MidEastTruth Forum Index  

Naomi Ragen is an American-born novelist and playwright who has lived in Jerusalem since 1971. She has published seven internationally best-selling novels, and is the author of a hit play.


Help us stay online!
donate

Jump to:  
RSSTwitterFacebookYoutube

Post new topic   Reply to topic    MidEastTruth Forum Index -> Naomi Ragen
Reply to topic View previous topic  â€¢  View next topic Reply to topic 

    editor

  

MidEastTruth.com - the first 13 yearsMidEastTruth.com
The first 13 years!

 

What is Palestine? Who are the Palestinians?
What is Palestine?
Who are the Palestinians?


See Also:

 


PostSat Dec 10, 2005 4:02 pm     Erasing the Jewish Star    


Reply with quote

 
Erasing the Jewish Star

Friends,

We shouldn't be surprised. The same Israeli leadership that saw the synagogues destroyed in Gush Katif, is now hailing as a great victory its utter capitulation and debasement by relinquishing the Star of David as the symbol of Magen David Adom in order to join the International Red Cross.

What can I say? This is my government, the government of the Jewish State. I am ashamed.

One wonders why the Red Crescent is not a problem. Why the Red Cross is not a problem. One wonders who it was in Israel that made this decision and why they think that agreeing to erase the Jewish Star and replace it with a meaningless "crystal" is a solution, and if so, to what problem. It is very telling.

We caved in to Condoleezza Rice when she demanded we open the gates to unsupervised transports from Gaza, and have postponed unsupervised infiltration from Egypt that will leave the West Bank and our schools and supermarkets open to Al Qaeda and Hamas, only because there was a terrorist attack in Netanya.

Our leaders are busy putting up election posters telling us "They are the ones to...." (you pick the rest of the sentence. It's all a lie anyway.)

We have a bunch of people in a new party who were on opposite ends of the political spectrum, who apparently are now willing to join together in order to promote (you got it) themselves.

Tzachi Hanegbi, who opposed the disengagement, together with Shimon Peres, the architect of Oslo.

So what does this party, Sharon's party, stand for? And what does the State of Israel stand for?

I wish I knew. Especially since my son is in the army.

Below, an article on this from the Wall Street Journal.

Naomi


Red Star of David

Wall Street Journal
December 9, 2005; Page A14

After almost six decades of rejection, Israel saw the road cleared yesterday for its emergency and disaster relief organization to join the International Red Cross. The price of admission was relinquishing its symbol, the Red Star of David.

Instead, the Red Cross approved a new "neutral" symbol -- a Red Crystal, which Israel must adopt to become a member, possibly next spring. The Star of David may still be used at home, and on foreign missions it can be put inside the Crystal, provided the host country agrees.

Israeli diplomats are celebrating the Crystal as a great victory. If that's a victory, we'd hate to see a defeat. Even this compromise, which was opposed by most Muslim countries, came only after the American Red Cross withheld its contributions to protest Israel's exclusion from the international body.

Some Crystal backers argue that the Red Cross carries no religious symbolism. Under this rewriting of history, Swiss Red Cross founder Henry Dunant adopted the inverse design of his homeland's flag without any religious motivation. But the Swiss flag dates back to the Holy Roman Empire and of course has strong Christian connotations. This cannot have escaped the deeply religious Dunant who, by the way, was also a fervent Zionist.

Irrespective of Dunant's intentions, the Red Cross came to be seen as a Christian symbol. That's why Muslim countries refused to adopt it, and instead chose the Red Crescent, the only other recognized symbol. It's a disgrace that the Star of David, which symbolizes the faith that spawned both Christianity and Islam, is excluded.

Comment on this article using the "Post Reply" button


Facebook

 

Back to top  




Dear friends, we need your help!

If you find our work meaningful and useful,
please consider making a small donation
and help us stay online and grow.
Thank you for your support!



    david barrett

  

MidEastTruth.com - the first 13 yearsMidEastTruth.com
The first 13 years!

 

What is Palestine? Who are the Palestinians?
What is Palestine?
Who are the Palestinians?


See Also:

 


PostSun Dec 11, 2005 7:47 am        


Reply with quote

 
Quote:
Even this compromise, which was opposed by most Muslim countries, came only after the American Red Cross withheld its contributions to protest Israel's exclusion from the international body.


Exactly this - a compromise - and why not?
How long does one bang one's head against the wall?
Our life is one long compromise and I believe that once we go ahead with this diamond concept many people will be able to concentrate on more important problems.
The Star of David will only come into its own right when the arab leagues are destroyed.
I can live with the compromise.


Facebook

 

Back to top  



    grantman

  

MidEastTruth.com - the first 13 yearsMidEastTruth.com
The first 13 years!

 

What is Palestine? Who are the Palestinians?
What is Palestine?
Who are the Palestinians?


See Also:

 


PostSun Dec 11, 2005 10:27 am     Compromise?    


Reply with quote

 
Yes, it is a compromise, but it's a compromise of principles...and the way Israel is going these days, it's going to compromise itself out of existence. This is one more example of my growing belief in what Robert Spencer, Bat Ye'or, Hugh Fitzgerald, and others, call dhimmitude, which is a true description of the political world in which we find ourselves today; one which must be avoided at all costs.

I disagree with you on this one, David, especially since I don't see the Arab Leagues disbanding anytime in the near, mid, or distant future.

Yes, there are more important things on the table - Palestinian compliance with all the agreements they've signed and to which they have obligated themselves, a nuclear Iran, rising antisemitism, and everything else that is written in these forums - but MDA has not been a member since its inception, what's another couple of years? The world hates the Jews anyway so why not stick to our symbol and continue to do the good work for which we're known.

This is just one more crystal clear example of Jew hatred, nothing more.


Facebook

 

Back to top  



    grantman

  

MidEastTruth.com - the first 13 yearsMidEastTruth.com
The first 13 years!

 

What is Palestine? Who are the Palestinians?
What is Palestine?
Who are the Palestinians?


See Also:

 


PostSun Dec 11, 2005 10:33 am     Oops.    


Reply with quote

 
Should have used the style tag for the last line. For some reason I couldn't edit the post.

This is just one more crystal clear example of Jew hatred, nothing more.


Facebook

 

Back to top  



    Alank287

  

MidEastTruth.com - the first 13 yearsMidEastTruth.com
The first 13 years!

 

What is Palestine? Who are the Palestinians?
What is Palestine?
Who are the Palestinians?


See Also:

 


PostSun Dec 11, 2005 2:38 pm     Utter debasement    


Reply with quote

 
To Krystalnacht of the Nazis in the 1930's we can now add the Crystal (Christ-al?) symbol these spineless bureaucrats accepted. No other country, as far as I know, has ever given up its national flag to join this largely corrupt organization.

A few years ago, the US head of the Red Cross resigned rather than put up with the anti-Israeli discrimination. Israel has no need of the Red Cross, or the Red Crescent, and an independent Magen David Adom did pretty well for the country till now. Perhaps the new government that will emerge after the next elections will rescind this spineless decision. Given Israeli medical, search and rescue, and other skills, they need us more than we need them, by a long shot.


Facebook

 

Back to top  



    irichman

  

MidEastTruth.com - the first 13 yearsMidEastTruth.com
The first 13 years!

 

What is Palestine? Who are the Palestinians?
What is Palestine?
Who are the Palestinians?


See Also:

 


PostSun Dec 11, 2005 8:37 pm     THE RED CROSS    


Reply with quote

 
I WILL NEVER GIVE MONEY TO THE RED CROSS AGAIN. IF THE RED CROSS ALLOWED A CRESCENT, THERE IS NO PROBLEM WITH ALLOWING THE STAR OF DAVID. THE RED CROSS IS TRYING TO ERASE JUDIASM. JUDIASM WILL NEVER BE ERASED AND WILL LIVE ON FOREVER AND FOREVER. JUDIASM ESTABLISHED THE FIRST RULES OF LAW WITH THE TEN COMMANDMENTS. THE TEN COMMANDMENTS SET UP RULES AS TO HOW HUMAN BEINGS SHOULD LIVE. THE COMMANDMENTS HAVE SURVIVED FOR 5,000 YEARS AND WILL SURVIVE FOREVER AND SO WILL THE STAR OF DAVID. THE RED CROSS MAY PERFORM MANY HUMANISTIC CHORES THROUGHOUT THE WORLD BUT WHAT HAS IT EVER DONE FOR ISRAEL? THE RED CROSS HAS TRIED TO STAMP OUT JUDIASM BUT IT WILL NEVER SUCCEED. THE JEWISH PEOPLE ARE THE MOST PHILANTHROPIC PEOPLE THROUGHOUT TIME. THE RED CROSS CANNOT SUCCEED IN ABOLISHING THE STAR OF DAVID. THE JEWISH PEOPLE SHOULD NEVER GIVE ANY MONEY TO THE RED CROSS. LET THE RED CROSS COLLECT MONEY FROM THE CHRISTIANS AND MUSLIMS, THE RELIGION THAT CUTS OFF HEADS OF CHRISTIAN MISSIONARIES.


Facebook

_________________
The Trojan Horse was allowed to enter Israel with Shimon Peres' agreement with Yasser Arafat. Both received Nobel Peace Prizes which should immediately be removed by the Nobel Committee.

 

Back to top  



    Robert

  

MidEastTruth.com - the first 13 yearsMidEastTruth.com
The first 13 years!

 

What is Palestine? Who are the Palestinians?
What is Palestine?
Who are the Palestinians?


See Also:

 


PostMon Dec 12, 2005 6:52 am     Crystal Symbol    


Reply with quote

 
Let's not get too excited. While I agree that I too will never give money to the Red Cross, this accommodation is for work outside of Israel.

Also while Israel does not need the world in respect of specialist aid work for which MDA is renowned. the world needs Israel. The Pakistani earthquake and the Tsunami are two recent examples.

To the world that has always reconised MDA nothing has changed. To the world that never recognised MDA a little has changed.


Facebook

 

Back to top  



    Starman3000m

  

MidEastTruth.com - the first 13 yearsMidEastTruth.com
The first 13 years!

 

What is Palestine? Who are the Palestinians?
What is Palestine?
Who are the Palestinians?


See Also:

 


PostMon Dec 12, 2005 10:24 am        


Reply with quote

 
Hmmm...something to think about here:

(Excerpts from the thread: “Star of David?” in Inter-religious Posted March 16, 2004 on Page 5)

It would be very interesting to see how G-d would view the acceptance of the Star of David symbol that was once used for worshipping another god (Molech). Remember that King Solomon established tabernacles to appease his pagan wives and one such pagan practice included the six-pointed star that is seen as harmless today by some but still used to be harmful by others.

The Star of David is an ancient symbol that ties in with idol worship, as referenced in earlier posts.

Knowing this to be true, it should be determined if it (was ever) really wise for the six-pointed star to be used as a symbol of G-d's Chosen People?

The more fitting and acceptable symbol is the Menorah.


Facebook

_________________
There Is Only One Truth
Starman3000

 

Back to top  



    david barrett

  

MidEastTruth.com - the first 13 yearsMidEastTruth.com
The first 13 years!

 

What is Palestine? Who are the Palestinians?
What is Palestine?
Who are the Palestinians?


See Also:

 


PostMon Dec 12, 2005 12:28 pm        


Reply with quote

 
Quote:
The more fitting and acceptable symbol is the Menorah.


Theoretically you are quite right and may ask whence the SoD on Israel's flag. Why not the Menorah?
The SoD is an intertwined 2 triangles - the one pointing upwards representing the essence of Deity and the other referring to earth, us.
Interlinked it represents our responsibility to God & his beneficience to us.

A Menorah IMO would only have been indicative of religion.


Facebook

 

Back to top  



    giora nevo

  

MidEastTruth.com - the first 13 yearsMidEastTruth.com
The first 13 years!

 

What is Palestine? Who are the Palestinians?
What is Palestine?
Who are the Palestinians?


See Also:

 


PostTue Dec 13, 2005 3:47 pm        


Reply with quote

 
Crying or Very sad To my opinion this is an outrageous idea , this is an undesirable relinquish of our symbol " The Red Magen David Adom ".
This has nothing to do with politics even if the governement thinks it has ,
the politicians will have to pay for their own disgraceful ruling . If I were one them I would certainly think again .
Giora Nevo ,
Kiryat-Gat ISRAEL


Facebook

 

Back to top  



    david barrett

  

MidEastTruth.com - the first 13 yearsMidEastTruth.com
The first 13 years!

 

What is Palestine? Who are the Palestinians?
What is Palestine?
Who are the Palestinians?


See Also:

 


PostTue Dec 13, 2005 3:52 pm        


Reply with quote

 
Giora
As I understand the agreement , Israel can place the MD inside the 'crystal' whilst operating on home ground


Facebook

 

Back to top  



    Starman3000m

  

MidEastTruth.com - the first 13 yearsMidEastTruth.com
The first 13 years!

 

What is Palestine? Who are the Palestinians?
What is Palestine?
Who are the Palestinians?


See Also:

 


PostWed Dec 14, 2005 9:01 pm        


Reply with quote

 
david barrett wrote:
Quote:
The more fitting and acceptable symbol is the Menorah.


Theoretically you are quite right and may ask whence the SoD on Israel's flag. Why not the Menorah?
The SoD is an intertwined 2 triangles - the one pointing upwards representing the essence of Deity and the other referring to earth, us.
Interlinked it represents our responsibility to God & his beneficience to us.

A Menorah IMO would only have been indicative of religion.



Hmmm...

David, I have heard that the "Star of David" was ordered worn by all Jews in Germany and symbolically placed upon Jewish prisoners as an order by Hitler. Also that the color of the symbol was yellow. Please check out this Internet site regarding info on the symbol:

http://www.symbols.com/encyclopedia/29/2917.html


Facebook

_________________
There Is Only One Truth
Starman3000

 

Back to top  



    Starman3000m

  

MidEastTruth.com - the first 13 yearsMidEastTruth.com
The first 13 years!

 

What is Palestine? Who are the Palestinians?
What is Palestine?
Who are the Palestinians?


See Also:

 


PostWed Dec 14, 2005 9:24 pm        


Reply with quote

 
With all due respect, the following info is why I believe that Yahweh would not honor the symbolic "Star of David" and why the Menorah should be the symbol of Israel:

Amos 5:26-27 But ye have borne the tabernacle of your Moloch and Chiun your images, the star of your god, which ye made to yourselves. Therefore will I cause you to go into captivity beyond Damascus, saith the LORD, whose name is The God of hosts.
________________________________________

"Moloch, Chiun and Remphan are all names for the star god, Saturn, whose symbol is a six pointed star formed by two triangles. Saturn was the supreme god of the Chaldeans.

The hexagram was brought to the Jewish people by Solomon when he turned to witchcraft and idolatry after his marriage to Pharaoh's daughter in 922B.C. It became known as the Seal of Solomon in Egyptian magic and witchcraft. David had absolutely nothing to do with the hexagram and that star most certainly did not, in any way, represent God's people. Solomon gave himself up to satanic worship and built altars to Aashtroeth and Moloch (Saturn).

The hexagram faded from Jewish usage for 2,600 years. Then in the 1800’s, in Germany, it was adopted by Mayer Rothchild to mark his house. The six pointed star was used as the Rothchild coat of arms. It is difficult to pin down the date at which the six pointed hexagram star became known as the so-called Star of David. In fact the earliest Jewish application of the symbol outside the Rothchild banking and financial empire is 1873. That was the year that the Magen David was adopted as a Jewish device by the American Jewish Publication Society. It is not even mentioned in the rabbinic literature searches. Other than that fact, no one seems to know when or how the Occult or Satanic star, became the Star of David. What should a Christian or observant Jew have to do with this symbol, NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING. Keep the symbol out of your house. The evidence is overwhelming that it is a cursed symbol which may give demonic ground or license.

The hexagram has remained in use within the occult and is prominent in the rituals and worship of Druids, Freemasons, Astrology, New Age, and Wicca. Witches often have this hexagram symbol, of the so-called Star of David, tattooed on the abdomens or palms of witchcraft initiates.
The so-called Star of David is essentially a hexagram, nothing more, nothing less. There is no Biblical or Jewish evidence that traces this ancient occult symbol with King David of Israel. However, there is evidence that it was used by King Solomon, after he turned to pagan gods and the occult, late in his life. It is a very sobering thought and strong case against OSAS that Solomon’s soul would end up in hell. Here is a man to whom God appeared twice, whose father was King David, who was used by God to write so much scripture, Proverbs, Song of Solomon, and Ecclesiastes.

I Kings 11:4-9 For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, [that] his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the LORD his God, as [was] the heart of David his father. For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites. And Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD, and went not fully after the LORD, as [did] David his father. Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that [is] before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon. And the LORD was angry with Solomon, because his heart was turned from the LORD God of Israel, which had appeared unto him twice..."

http://www.dccsa.com/greatjoy/starof.htm


Facebook

_________________
There Is Only One Truth
Starman3000

 

Back to top  



    david barrett

  

MidEastTruth.com - the first 13 yearsMidEastTruth.com
The first 13 years!

 

What is Palestine? Who are the Palestinians?
What is Palestine?
Who are the Palestinians?


See Also:

 


PostThu Dec 15, 2005 7:07 am        


Reply with quote

 
Starman
I do not disagree with you in that the Menorah should be representative of the Jewish people - indeed there is a large one right outside the Knesset.
And of course you will see them adorning many synagogues.
Also an emblem of certain Jewish fraternities.

For whatever reason things changed, esp. after the Zionist Congress and the MD [ also known as the Seal of Solomon] was adopted.
I suspect that for the non observant Jew the Menorah was too religious orientated.

Read following:
Star of David

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Magen David (shield of David, or as it is more commonly known, the Star of David) is the symbol most commonly associated with Judaism today, but it is actually a relatively new Jewish symbol. It is supposed to represent the shape of King David's shield (or perhaps the emblem on it), but there is really no support for that claim in any early rabbinic literature. In fact, the symbol is so rare in early Jewish literature and artwork that art dealers suspect forgery if they find the symbol in early works.

Scholars such as Franz Rosenzweig have attributed deep theological significance to the symbol. For example, some note that the top triangle strives upward, toward G-d, while the lower triangle strives downward, toward the real world. Some note that the intertwining makes the triangles inseparable, like the Jewish people. Some say that the three sides represent the three types of Jews: Kohanim, Levites and Israel.

While these theories are theologically interesting, they have little basis in historical fact. [AGREED]

The symbol of intertwined equilateral triangles is a common one in the Middle East and North Africa, and is thought to bring good luck. It appears occasionally in early Jewish artwork, but never as an exclusively Jewish symbol. The nearest thing to an "official" Jewish symbol at the time was the menorah.

In the middle ages, Jews often were required to wear badges to identify themselves as Jews, much as they were in Nazi Germany, but these Jewish badges were not always the familiar Magen David. For example, a fifteenth century painting by Nuno Goncalves features a rabbi wearing a six-pointed badge that looks more or less like an asterisk.

In the 17th century, it became a popular practice to put Magen Davids on the outside of synagogues, to identify them as Jewish houses of worship in much the same way that a cross identified a Christian house of worship; however, I have never seen any explanation of why this symbol was chosen, rather than some other symbol.

The Magen David gained popularity as a symbol of Judaism when it was adopted as the emblem of the Zionist movement in 1897, but the symbol continued to be controversial for many years afterward. When the modern state of Israel was founded, there was much debate over whether this symbol should be used on the flag.

Today, the Magen David is a universally recognized symbol of Jewry. It appears on the flag of the state of Israel, and the Israeli equivalent of the Red Cross is known as the Magen David Adom.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Judaism 101



Also http://www.menorah.org/starofdavid.html

The earliest known Jewish use of the hexagram was as a seal in ancient Israel (6th century B.C.E.) and then eight centuries later in a *synagogue frieze in Capernaum.

Rather, all evidence suggests that the early use of the hexagram was limited to "practical Kabbalah," that is, Jewish magic, probably dating back to the 6th century C.E.

The hexagram was also widely regarded as a messianic symbol by the followers of Shabbatai Tzevi, the false messiah of the 17th century

Another use of the hexagram in medieval times was as a Jewish printer's mark or heraldic emblem, especially in Prague and among members of the Jewish Foa family, who lived in Italy and Holland. In 1354, Emperor Charles IV of Prague granted the Jews of his city the privilege of displaying their own *flag on state occasions. Their flag displayed a large six-pointed star in its center. A similar flag remains to this day in the Altneuschul, the oldest synagogue in Prague. From Prague, the "Magen David" spread to the Jewish communities of Moravia and Bohemia, and then eventually to Eastern Europe. In 17th-century Vienna, the Jewish quarter was separated from the Christian quarter by a boundary stone inscribed with a hexagram on one side and a cross on the other, the first instance of the six-pointed star being used to represent Judaism as a whole, rather than an individual community.

On the popular level, Jews continue to use the Jewish star as it was used for centuries: as a magical amulet of good luck and as a secularized symbol of Jewish identity


See also
http://atlasgeo.span.ch/fotw/flags/il.html#mag

and in deference to its possible past use as defined by you I would like you to read this response to a question asked based on your statements above

http://66.249.93.104/search?q=.....&hl=en


Facebook

 

Back to top  



    Starman3000m

  

MidEastTruth.com - the first 13 yearsMidEastTruth.com
The first 13 years!

 

What is Palestine? Who are the Palestinians?
What is Palestine?
Who are the Palestinians?


See Also:

 


PostThu Dec 15, 2005 8:30 am        


Reply with quote

 
Hi, David,

From the last article-response you asked me to read:

Quote:
As for the story about Solomon (which I have heard before), I suspect it is apocryphal. According to a book from the Jewish Agency, the first known use of the star by a Jew dates from the seventh century BCE, well after Solomon's time. This indicates there is no historical or archeological evidence that Solomon ever saw it.



From my original comments:

Quote:
Amos 5:26-27 But ye have borne the tabernacle of your Moloch and Chiun your images, the star of your god, which ye made to yourselves. Therefore will I cause you to go into captivity beyond Damascus, saith the LORD, whose name is The God of hosts.
________________________________________

"Moloch, Chiun and Remphan are all names for the star god, Saturn, whose symbol is a six pointed star formed by two triangles. Saturn was the supreme god of the Chaldeans.

The hexagram was brought to the Jewish people by Solomon when he turned to witchcraft and idolatry after his marriage to Pharaoh's daughter in 922B.C. It became known as the Seal of Solomon in Egyptian magic and witchcraft. David had absolutely nothing to do with the hexagram and that star most certainly did not, in any way, represent God's people. Solomon gave himself up to satanic worship and built altars to Aashtroeth and Moloch (Saturn).


My usual comment: Hmmm......

Regards
Starman


Facebook

_________________
There Is Only One Truth
Starman3000

 

Back to top  



Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    MidEastTruth Forum Index -> Naomi Ragen All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 



RSSTwitterFacebookYoutube






The MidEastTruth.com Forum | Powered by phpBB