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editor
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 11:46 am    Post subject: A picture is worth 1000 words.     Bookmark and Share
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Dear friends,

They say that a picture is worth 1000 words. We believe that the following photographs demonstrates vividly the moral issues facing Israeli troops when confronting armed Palestinian gunmen taking refuge among children and civilians. When taking into consideration this terrorist tactic -- operating from within civilian population -- one can only appreciate the relatively low Palestinian civilian casualty rate caused by IDF soldiers.

Look at the photographs. Read the original captions. Examine the environment. See the civilians.



------------------------


Original Caption: Palestinian militants exchange fire with Israeli troops in the Gaza Strip, February 11, 2004. In their deadliest strike for months, Israeli troops killed at least 14 Palestinians in gun battles in the Gaza Strip on Wednesday, in raids Israel said were to root out militants behind attacks on Jewish settlements. REUTERS/Str

------------------------


Original Caption: A Palestinian militant points his gun at the sky during a firefight with Israeli forces in Gaza City.(AFP/Mahmoud Hams)

------------------------


Original Caption: Masked Palestinian militants from the Hamas group, bottom and from Islamic Jihad, top, take positions during a gunfight with Israeli forces in a Gaza city's neighborhood, Wednesday Feb. 11, 2004. Israeli troops moved into a neighborhood at the eastern edge of Gaza City early Wednesday, killing atleast 14 Palestinians and wounding at least 27 others in exchanges of fire, residents said, sparking the bloodiest fighting in Gaza in four months. (AP Photo/Adel Hana)

------------------------


Original Caption: A Palestinian militant sets up a home made anti-tank missile during an exchange fire with Israeli troops during a raid into the Gaza Strip, February 11, 2004. In their deadliest strike for months, Israeli troops killed at least 14 Palestinians in gun battles in the Gaza Strip Wednesday, in raids Israel said were to root out militants behind attacks on Jewish settlements. The army assault followed signs of unease in the military over a shock announcement by Prime Minister Ariel Sharon last week that he planned to pull all settlers out of the Gaza Strip. Photo by Reuters

------------------------


Original Caption: A masked Hamas militant sets up a makeshift mortar launcher against Israeli forces, unseen, as Palestinian youths try to cover him from the sight of the forces during an incursion in a Gaza city's neighborhood, Wednesday Feb. 11, 2004. Israeli troops moved into a neighborhood at the eastern edge of Gaza City early Wednesday, killing atleast 14 Palestinians and wounding at least 27 others in exchanges of fire, residents said, sparking the bloodiest fighting in Gaza in four months. (AP Photo/Adel Hana)


Last edited by editor on Mon May 07, 2007 4:00 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Marvin Mark
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 6:11 pm    Post subject:     Bookmark and Share
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It is an oxymoron for the PLO or Hamas to be shooting from behind children, women and the aged and then accusing Israelis of murdering those children, woman and the aged while aiming at the PLO or Hamas combatant.

It is time to realize that responsibility and authority are the same in civilized warfare. However, when oximoron anti civilized warfare is used responsibility and authorityare seperated.

Example: Israelis Killing Anti Civilized PLO or Hamas Combatants firing from behind children, women, or the aged is not murder. The Israelis are the author of the killing. However, it is the PLO and Hamas combatant who are resposible for the war crime murder of innocent children, women and the aged.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2004 12:43 am    Post subject:     Bookmark and Share
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An email we received today:

Quote:
Dear sir,

At a forum on the internet, about 10 different people have been engaging in
a debate about your photographs of last week's battle in Gaza. I have posted
the following message into this debate, and I would be grateful if you'd
comment on what I have written.

Also, if these pictures are from Reuters, is there a story attached to them?
Is there any way to identify the photographer himself, and discuss them
with him? Do you have any idea why the IDF do not appear on any of the
pictures, when, if an exchange of fire was taking place, the photographer
could easily have taken a picture of them without much additional risk to
himself?

Thankyou very mich for any help you can offer us with these issues.

Take care,
Graham Laight


Quote:

Ok - it's time to take a full overview of the evidence before us, and to
assign numerical values to them.

The narrow question on which we'll focus is: "Are these pictures depicting
an exchange of fire between Palestinian militants and the IDF"?

There is plenty of evidence both in favour of, and against, this proposition.

The pictures are at
http://www.mideasttruth.com/fo.....civilians/

(Here is what a search for them on Reuters reveals:
http://www.reuters.com/newsSea.....30&y=5
)

Although hackles and egos have been raised in these threads, I will try to
be as honest and impartial as I can in making my assessment. I will also forward this text to info@MidEastTruth.com and ask them to comment on what I am saying.

What I will do numerically is to give each factor a score, and then give a
running total (RT). Let me begin!

The source: there is no reason to suppose that mideasttruth.com would
deliberately misinform, so we?ll start by awarding 100 points.

RT 100

The website is clearly partisan, so we?ll subtract 10

RT 90

There is no ?about? page at the website, so I assume that they?re a small group (or even a single person), and that, unlike a newspaper, there is no hierarchy of editorial control to maintain quality (even then, terrible mistakes can occur, as the Hutton enquiry shamefully demonstrated of the BBC). Subtract 10.

RT 80

Take a look at the caption here:
http://www.mideasttruth.com/fo.....ildren.jpg
.
It states that the militant is exchanging fire. However ? in all these three
pictures:

http://www.mideasttruth.com/fo.....ldren1.jpg
http://www.mideasttruth.com/fo.....ldren2.jpg
http://www.mideasttruth.com/fo.....lians5.jpg

the gun is being aimed high. If there are IDF soldiers present, one would
expect them to be crouching low, avoiding presenting themselves as a target. At the very least, the caption ought not to be stating that he is exchanging fire at the exact time that the picture is being taken. Subtract 10

RT 70

Gun: if that's not a Kalashnikov AKM, then it?s a damn good copy! Add 10

RT 80

http://www.mideasttruth.com/fo.....ldren1.jpg
Absence of shell cases: subtract 8
Boy holding ears implies the existence of noise: add 4
Non rigid hold of gun: subtract 1

RT 75

http://www.mideasttruth.com/fo.....ldren2.jpg
Absence of shell cases: subtract 8
Lush green grass in background where it is clearly not watered or nurtured, which one would not expect in Gaza: subtract 10
Non rigid hold of gun: subtract 1

RT 56

http://www.mideasttruth.com/fo.....ldren3.jpg
Absence of shell cases: subtract 6 (I think that they would eject towards
the left of the picture if these guns were fired, but I'm only 80% sure)
Age of combatants: these two are clearly children (they look as though
they're playing a wargame to me) ? look at their size, and look how fresh the skin on their hands and around their eyes is ? subtract 10
Man stood casually in background of live fire battle: subtract 15
Boots look realistic: add 1

RT 26

http://www.mideasttruth.com/fo.....lians4.jpg
Caption describes this as a ?home made anti-tank missile?. As previously
pointed out, an amateur simply could not make an armour piercing rocket (would need high skill, unobtainable material, and extensive testing facilities). Also, a home made rocket would be unlikely to travel in a horizontal straight line - subtract 7
Size of boy carrying device, the fact that it has been mounted on a flimsy
looking tripod for him, and the fact that he's struggling to carry it
implies that the operator is a young boy - subtract 5
Good quality boots on combatant: add 2

RT 16

http://www.mideasttruth.com/fo.....lians5.jpg
Absence of shell cases: subtract 8

RT 8

http://www.mideasttruth.com/fo.....lians6.jpg
caption describes weapon as "mortar launcher": subtract 1
Open position of weapon in middle of street where IDF can easily see it,
implying that this is a game rather than a battle: subtract 10

Final total: -3

It is therefore my conclusion that it is not likely that the original
proposition ("these pictures are depicting an exchange of fire between
Palestinian militants and the IDF") is unlikely to be accurate.

Thankyou for reading my analysis. If you choose to respond, I pray that you will have the power to do so with a clear head and a civil tongue! Smile

Take care,
-g




Our answer:


Dear Graham,

We were really amused by the posting which we received by email, especially the
details about the lush green grass and the good quality boot in the photograph.

Other comments you made which were questionable: doubting that a "partisan"
organization like MidEastTruth is capable of presenting a fair picture. Do you
honestly believe that only individuals or groups who have NO opinion on the
matter can faithfully represent it? Does that mean that only ignorant or
uncaring individuals/groups can delve or discuss the Middle East, in your view?
Just for the record, MidEastTruth is an organization whose members include Jews,
Christians and Muslims. We try to promote peace and coexistence and to fight
hate and terrorism. Bear in mind, we didn't take the picture nor did we write
the caption for it.

As for MidEastTruth being a "small group," with no hierarchy or editorial
control, how is that relevant to anything? Clearly, large organizations with
definite hierarchies (like the BBC, in your example) can make colossal mistakes;
similarly, smaller organizations (like ours) can be accurate and just. Ergo, the
size and power structure of MidEastTruth are quite irrelevant to the quality of
our site.

As we see it, the matter is quite clear: we have no reason to doubt the
integrity of the Reuters photojournalist.

Let us be very clear: the caption which appeared beneath the photo was the
caption given by the Palestinian photojournalist who took the picture. We merely
reprinted it. We did not invent it ourselves. We have no reason to believe that
the photojournalist who captioned the photo would be anything other than honest
and truthful. If you have any reason to believe that the journalist had an
interest in misrepresenting the truth and saying this was a shooting incident
when it wasn't, please enlighten us. After all, he was an eyewitness to the
event, one whose photograph was published in the world media.

These photographs, issued by Reuters, were published in dozens of newspapers
worldwide. Reuters' credibility is certainly reputable, and no Palestinian
official has tried to hint that these photographs are unreal or "incorrect"
somehow.

Even if we were to accept your line of thinking, and every word you wrote was
true, there are still moral issues at hand which cannot be ignored. You cannot
ignore the fact that the photo depicts a sad and twisted reality: Palestinian
terrorists operating from within a civilian population Ė a group of children
or a home full of civilians.

Would you suggest that Palestinian children are better off as human shields in
the line of fire? If you were a Palestinian parent, wouldnít you want your
children to be safe at home rather than outside under fire? Donít you think
itís immoral that the Palestinian gunmen themselves donít send the children
to a safer environment?

Please visit http://www.mideasttruth.com/fo......php?t=461

Look at the photographs. Read the original captions. Examine the environment.
See the civilians.

Consider the second photo closely: the gunmen are shielded by a mound, and
children are crouching in their midst.

Thank you for your time.

Visit our Forum:
http://www.mideasttruth.com/forum

Lior Ben-Ami
MidEastTruth
http://www.MidEastTruth.com
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2004 3:29 am    Post subject: Consider this detail     Bookmark and Share
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Talking about the pictures and nothing else, lets concentrate for just a moment on picture #4

Quote:

Original Caption: Masked Palestinian militants from the Hamas group, bottom and from Islamic Jihad, top, take positions during a gunfight with Israeli forces in a Gaza city's neighborhood, Wednesday Feb. 11, 2004. Israeli troops moved into a neighborhood at the eastern edge of Gaza City early Wednesday, killing atleast 14 Palestinians and wounding at least 27 others in exchanges of fire, residents said, sparking the bloodiest fighting in Gaza in four months. (AP Photo/Adel Hana)


Please consider the text very carefully. What is the image that this text conveys?

At a closer inspection one can notice that both gunmen have their safety up; they can't shoot with these guns any more than they can shoot with a wooden stick.

Note that for improving the visibility the image has +30 brightness and +30 contrast applied to the area within the red rectangles. No other modification has been done to the original picture.



Here are the zoomed parts of the image.






So the question that comes to mind is;
What kind of a gunfight are these people involved in with their weapons unable to discharge?
Why does the original text associated with this image state:
Quote:

Masked Palestinian militants from the Hamas group, bottom and from Islamic Jihad, top, take positions during a gunfight with Israeli forces

?

I would suggest that these particular people, on the picture, are not involved in any gunfight at the moment the picture was taken.
It is also very unlikely that they were in the vicinity of IDF; for if they were they would have certainly taken the safety down.

Second question that comes to mind:
Why are they taking aim with their utterly disabled weapons?

This makes sense if they were posing for a picture and it doesn't make any sense if they were actually taking aim at their enemy. I'm sure the IDF doesn't have a policy to avoid shooting gunmen whose weapon safety is up.

These are just observations based on a single picture with a text attached to it.
I don't claim to know the truth, but there is a disparity between the message in the text and the picture at hand.


Picture is worth a 1000 words indeed. Even with a 1000 words one can not hide this which is in the picture.

Regards.
[/img]
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2004 5:39 am    Post subject: Re: Consider this detail     Bookmark and Share
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Your claim that they are just posing for a photo is too preposterous to be worth any discussion.

But let's assume that the rifle is at discharge at the moment (even though based on the picture it cannot be verified). That only means that they are not firing at the moment, and just waiting for the Israeli forces to appear.

But even that doesn't change anything. Suppose the Israeli forces notice this terrorist and shoot him. Most probably those civilians around him will also get killed. And you will be the first to accuse us of crimes against humanity (as usual).

Or in other pictures, where the terrorists are hiding amongst tens of children: just imagine what will happen if a tank fires a shell towards the terrorist...
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2004 6:10 am    Post subject: Re: Consider this detail     Bookmark and Share
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elidavid wrote:
Your claim that they are just posing for a photo is too preposterous to be worth any discussion.


I don't claim that.
This is just one of many likely possibilities.
An unlikely possibility is that these people are engaged in a gunfight.

elidavid wrote:

But let's assume that the rifle is at discharge at the moment (even though based on the picture it cannot be verified).


The guns can not be at discharge at the moment. The guns can't even be loaded in their current configuration.
This can be verified ... just look at the picture.

elidavid wrote:

That only means that they are not firing at the moment, and just waiting for the Israeli forces to appear.


Well, that only means that you have no experience with an AK.
Show this pictures (zoomed and original) to anyone who has a practical knowledge of the workings of an AK and ask them if the gun can be fired (or just loaded).
If you refuse to accept what is clearly in the picture then you might as well claim that they, the two masked man, are holding golf clubs instead of AK.

elidavid wrote:

But even that doesn't change anything.


Sure it does.
_Truth_ doesn't need to be expressed by such lame examples of misrepresentation.
If you stand for the _truth_ you should question this picture and text associated with it, because there is a clear discrepancy.

elidavid wrote:

Suppose the Israeli forces notice this terrorist and shoot him. Most probably those civilians around him will also get killed. And you will be the first to accuse us of crimes against humanity (as usual).


Totally different question.
And if this is a picture of a _real_ gunfight then you would be correct, but it isn't a picture of a real gunfight.

elidavid wrote:

Or in other pictures, where the terrorists are hiding amongst tens of children: just imagine what will happen if a tank fires a shell towards the terrorist...


Sure,
civilians will die if a tank fires anywhere near them ...
Use only the pictures that are truthful; you have enough choices anyway. But please, for your own sake, disregard and burn those pictures that are clearly at odds with reality.
You want to thwart the blatant Palestinian propaganda; perhaps you shouldn't engage in the same thing yourself.

Regards.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2004 6:58 am    Post subject: Re: Consider this detail     Bookmark and Share
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Quote:

Original Caption: Masked Palestinian militants from the Hamas group, bottom and from Islamic Jihad, top, take positions during a gunfight with Israeli forces in a Gaza city's neighborhood, Wednesday Feb. 11, 2004. Israeli troops moved into a neighborhood at the eastern edge of Gaza City early Wednesday, killing atleast 14 Palestinians and wounding at least 27 others in exchanges of fire, residents said, sparking the bloodiest fighting in Gaza in four months. (AP Photo/Adel Hana)


Funny, you accuse a photo by Associated Press, taken by an Arab journalist, of being biased in favor of Israel Mr. Green

Conduct a Google search for the name "Adel Hana":

http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Adel+Hana%22

You can see that the AP photos taken by that journalist can be found in countless number of pro-Palestinian propaganda sites.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2004 12:03 pm    Post subject:     Bookmark and Share
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To elidavid and Hristo:

You have managed to bring the level of discussion down quite a few notches.

Rolling Eyes


BTW, Hamas & Al Aqsa & Fatah & Hezbollah & bin Laden called: they enjoyed your attack on the good editors of this forum.

Laughing
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2004 1:01 pm    Post subject:     Bookmark and Share
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As we see it, the matter is quite clear: we have no reason to doubt the
integrity of the Reuters photojournalist.

Let us be very clear: the caption which appeared beneath the photo was the caption given by the Palestinian photojournalist who took the picture. We merely reprinted it. We did not invent it ourselves. We have no reason to believe that the photojournalist who captioned the photo would be anything other than honest and truthful. If you have any reason to believe that the journalist had an interest in misrepresenting the truth and saying this was a shooting incident when it wasn't, please enlighten us. After all, he was an eyewitness to the event, one whose photograph was published in the world media.

These photographs, issued by Reuters, were published in dozens of newspapers worldwide. Reuters' credibility is certainly reputable, and no Palestinian official has tried to hint that these photographs are unreal or "incorrect" somehow.

Even if we were to accept your line of thinking, and every word you wrote was true, there are still moral issues at hand which cannot be ignored. You cannot ignore the fact that the photo depicts a sad and twisted reality: Palestinian terrorists operating from within a civilian population - a group of children or a home full of civilians.

Is it ok, in your opinion, for children to be amongst armed, masked gunmen during, lets say, a game with live ammunition?

If you were a Palestinian parent, wouldn't you want your children to be safe at home rather than outside "playing" with armed, masked gunmen with AK47s?

Don't you think it's immoral that the Palestinian gunmen themselves don't send the children to a safer environment?
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2004 11:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Consider this detail     Bookmark and Share
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elidavid wrote:
Quote:

Original Caption: Masked Palestinian militants from the Hamas group, bottom and from Islamic Jihad, top, take positions during a gunfight with Israeli forces in a Gaza city's neighborhood, Wednesday Feb. 11, 2004. Israeli troops moved into a neighborhood at the eastern edge of Gaza City early Wednesday, killing atleast 14 Palestinians and wounding at least 27 others in exchanges of fire, residents said, sparking the bloodiest fighting in Gaza in four months. (AP Photo/Adel Hana)


Funny, you accuse a photo by Associated Press, taken by an Arab journalist, of being biased in favor of Israel Mr. Green


I make no such accusation or assertion.
But it is funny to see that you take media outlet for an arab journalist as unequivocal truth. You must have great respect for Arabs, eh?

It is completely irrelevant to me who considers this photo beneficial with respect to some agenda ...

In fact I'm not sure why do you consider the photo to be biased in favor of Israel.


Regards.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2004 11:34 pm    Post subject:     Bookmark and Share
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Elisheba wrote:
To elidavid and Hristo:

You have managed to bring the level of discussion down quite a few notches.

Rolling Eyes


How is that?
I raised a question about one of the photos at hand.
The discussion prior to that was non existent.

Elisheba wrote:

BTW, Hamas & Al Aqsa & Fatah & Hezbollah & bin Laden called: they enjoyed your attack on the good editors of this forum.

Laughing


I'm sure they are swarming to this forum to learn the truth.

The editors of this forum are neither good nor bad, IMO.
The editors are just as lost in dogmatism and propaganda as the rest of the world. I had some hopes for this forum to be engaged in a truly honest evaluation of the facts; albeit, it is nothing more than a soapbox for furthering meaningless ideology and propaganda.
Perhaps I haven't read enough and perhaps there are discussions here that are worthy to follow. If this is the case I apologize. :-/

Regards.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 12:12 am    Post subject:     Bookmark and Share
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editor wrote:
As we see it, the matter is quite clear: we have no reason to doubt the
integrity of the Reuters photojournalist.

Let us be very clear: the caption which appeared beneath the photo was the caption given by the Palestinian photojournalist who took the picture.


... and that makes it unquestionable truth, eh?

editor wrote:

We merely reprinted it. We did not invent it ourselves.


Ok. Who said anything different?
Though, defending it (the photo) as if it was your own creation is laughable.

editor wrote:

We have no reason to believe that the photojournalist who captioned the photo would be anything other than honest and truthful.


In other words; You don't see a reason to question the "statement", therefore the "statement" must be true?
A little pompous, don't you think?
The question about the photo is not related in any shape or form to;
Who took the picture? Why was the picture taken? By whom was it published?
Instead, the only evaluation applied to the material is whether the text message and the actual photograph are kosher and are consistent.

editor wrote:

If you have any reason to believe that the journalist had an interest in misrepresenting the truth and saying this was a shooting incident when it wasn't, please enlighten us. After all, he was an eyewitness to the event, one whose photograph was published in the world media.


Perhaps you might like me to explain the reasons for all human actions and ultimately the enlighten you on the meaning of life.
Shifting the premise of my question, to make it include a perceived knowledge of ones motivation is a last resort for the hypocrite. Are you one of those?
Instead of addressing my questions directly, you prefer to engage in a game of hide-the-salami.

Perhaps this will illustrate the situation better:
You present a paper, where someone states the 2 + 2 = 3.
I suggest that this might not be correct.
You respond with "Well, can you then tell me how many fingers am I holding behind my back?"

editor wrote:

These photographs, issued by Reuters, were published in dozens of newspapers worldwide. Reuters' credibility is certainly reputable, and no Palestinian official has tried to hint that these photographs are unreal or "incorrect" somehow.


Great; and if the Palestinian officials had complained about the pictures you would have conceded that those pictures aren't truthful?

editor wrote:

Even if we were to accept your line of thinking, and every word you wrote was true, there are still moral issues at hand which cannot be ignored.


Yes there are moral issues, beyond the single picture.
I'm not trying to remove the attention away from them. To the contrary, I want to bring the other issues to the front of the discussion; and one of those "other" moral issues is the issue of honesty, along side the issue of having to engage in urban war, along side the issue of having innocent people blown up to bits by deranged walking-talking bombs, along side daily oppression by well armed vigilantes ...

We can talk about all of this, but it would be a hollow conversation if we don't keep each other honest.

editor wrote:

You cannot ignore the fact that the photo depicts a sad and twisted reality: Palestinian terrorists operating from within a civilian population - a group of children or a home full of civilians.


It is a sad reality ... but that is a different topic.
We can talk about that if we could only agree on what is reasonable ...

editor wrote:

Is it ok, in your opinion, for children to be amongst armed, masked gunmen during, lets say, a game with live ammunition?


Of course it is not OK.
Why such a question?
Are these people solely responsible for their situation?
I believe that in large they are, but at the same time I also believe the they got to that situation with a little help from their neighbors.

Regards.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 1:44 am    Post subject:     Bookmark and Share
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Hristo wrote:
Elisheba wrote:

BTW, Hamas & Al Aqsa & Fatah & Hezbollah & bin Laden called: they enjoyed your attack on the good editors of this forum.

Laughing


I'm sure they are swarming to this forum to learn the truth.

The editors of this forum are neither good nor bad, IMO.
The editors are just as lost in dogmatism and propaganda as the rest of the world. I had some hopes for this forum to be engaged in a truly honest evaluation of the facts; albeit, it is nothing more than a soapbox for furthering meaningless ideology and propaganda.
Perhaps I haven't read enough and perhaps there are discussions here that are worthy to follow. If this is the case I apologize. :-/

Regards.


If you are sincere, you haven't read enough. Please take the time to go over some of the other threads and older discussions.

Also, go to the 'Homepage' and have a look at all that is offered there.

The editors are not in fact lost in anything; they have been far more understanding about all POV than have most. They also engage people with every POV as long as the posters are not terribly abusive.

However, please understand there are few forums for those of us who care for the survival of Israel and so you will find a decided tilt here. Have you noticed the sites that pretend to be evenhanded and then ban anyone with a different POV? How about the sites that are filled with anti-Semitic crap from the right, from the left, from everywhere? Then, there are the anti-Semitic sites which hide behind sometimes legitimate disagreements with Israeli policy.

I don't wish to speak for anyone else, but I've really had it. I've been banned from a site which agrees with me on every single issue except Israel. I've had people die in the Shoah and people die in Tel Aviv. It's too much.

Forgive me if this isn't well-written. I really should be asleep now.

Regards.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 3:11 am    Post subject:     Bookmark and Share
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Elisheba wrote:

However, please understand there are few forums for those of us who care for the survival of Israel and so you will find a decided tilt here.


This is to be expected and it is also quite understandable.

Elisheba wrote:

Have you noticed the sites that pretend to be evenhanded and then ban anyone with a different POV? How about the sites that are filled with anti-Semitic crap from the right, from the left, from everywhere? Then, there are the anti-Semitic sites which hide behind sometimes legitimate disagreements with Israeli policy.


Yes, I have noticed those cites.
The disparity is that on all of these cites the only truth that is accepted is the _one_ that promotes a given agenda or POV. The _truth_ has become and adjective and has ceased to be a noun. Haven't you noticed that it is irrelevant how logical or accurate your arguments are; people on those cites would dismiss you straight out by, more often than not, throwing some totally unrelated garbage in your direction.

Someone said;
When truth enters, even God sits down and listens.

Unfortunately on our, rather small, planet when prejudice and her sister dogma enter "truth" is shoved up Gods ... and then Gods is placed in a box by the door.


Elisheba wrote:

I don't wish to speak for anyone else, but I've really had it. I've been banned from a site which agrees with me on every single issue except Israel. I've had people die in the Shoah and people die in Tel Aviv. It's too much.

Forgive me if this isn't well-written. I really should be asleep now.

Regards.


I'm sorry for your loss.
The situation you live in is an incredibly difficult thing to endure and it is infinitely more difficult to get over!

Regards.
_________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

--Benjamin Franklin
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Hristo
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Joined: 26 Feb 2004
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2004 7:51 pm    Post subject: The truth and the mass media     Bookmark and Share
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This is primarily for those who claimed that the pictures were accurate because mass media outlets had published them.

---
Some of the details uncovered in the investigation of Kelley's work were truly
astonishing. The paper examined Kelley's claim to have been an eyewitness at a
2001 suicide bombing in Jerusalem. In his original copy Kelley had written that
he saw three men have their heads blown off in the blast. In a first draft of
his piece he described how the heads rolled 'with their eyes still blinking'.
However, police records show that no adult victims of the blast were
decapitated.
---

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/.....17,00.html

The TRUTH does not need this type of reporting/presentation.
Don't you think?

Best regards to all of you,
Hristo
_________________
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--Benjamin Franklin
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